Did He Deny The Second Coming? Brian Simmons & The Passion Translation Exposed!

If a book promises to give you the heart of God while quietly replacing His words with someone else's, that's not a translation. It's a trap. And the trap has a paper trail.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE:
The Passion Translation has been endorsed by some of the most influential voices in the charismatic world. Bill Johnson called it the best thing to happen to Bible translation in his lifetime. It's been sold in Bethel's bookstore, read in prayer rooms, and handed to new believers across the movement.

David Fish and JonMark Baker of the Minor Prophets Podcast spent weeks comparing the Passion Translation, line by line, against its claimed sources. What they found isn't a matter of interpretation. It's documented.

Where Brian Simmons departs from the Greek text, and claims an "Aramaic" source, the renderings don't match the Peshitta, the actual Syriac New Testament. They match the Mirror Bible, The Message, and other fringe paraphrases. Fish found over 300 instances in Paul's epistles alone. Simmons also claimed co-translator credentials on a Kuna New Testament. Ethnos 360, the mission that ran the project, says he was NEVER a Bible translator. The organization's own personnel said so on record.

The second half of this episode goes deeper: into Simmons' theology. In his own words, in multiple recordings, he redefines the second coming of Christ as an unveiling of a glorified end-times people rather than a bodily return. He calls the physical second coming "not in the Bible." He says, directly: "Christ is no longer a person. He is now a body, a corporate expression." That's not a slip. That's a system, and it has a name: Manifested Sons of God theology has a long history in the fringe of the charismatic world, and Brian Simmons is teaching it from the platform the movement handed him.

Join us to hear the evidence for yourself as fellow continuationists examine the paper trail.

0:00 – Introduction
3:55 – Plagiarism Discovery Explained
5:53 – Examples of Copied Verses
8:16 – Why Simmons Changed Text
12:07 – Lessening Judgment: John 15
13:29 – Is Simmons a Universalist?
16:46 – Simmons' Fabricated Credentials
18:44 – Ethnos360 Exposes Simmons
20:01 – Manifested Sons Theology
37:21 – "I Know When Jesus Returns"
57:58 – "I Am My Lover" Clip
1:06:35 – "Christ Is No Longer A Person"
1:14:26 – Closing Thoughts

RESOURCES MENTIONED:
- The Minor Prophets/Mike Winger episode:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9--owgBjtA
- Andrew Chapman's Research: https://theriveroflife.com/category/the-passion-anti-translation/
- Mike Winger's Research on The Passion Translation: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ3iRMLYFlHuv-ISp_iIw1WL8zaEm86L8 and https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ3iRMLYFlHvXha4rjCj1Po0WLQc_jGGW
- Handbook on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament — G.K. Beale https://a.co/d/09nG966Z
- Typology-Understanding the Bible's Promise-Shaped Patterns: How Old Testament Expectations are Fulfilled in Christ - James Hamilton https://a.co/d/01jQgVDW

PETITION:
Sign the petition to request YouVersion remove the Passion Translation: https://www.change.org/p/an-appeal-to-youversion-to-remove-the-passion-translation/psf/membership-ask?experience=member&allow_actions=true

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome back to the wonderful world of Remnant Radio. As you know, there's been recent uh stirrings up uh when it comes to the passion translation, uh alleged translation. And today I've got David Fish and John Mark Baker from the Minor Prophets. We're gonna be talking a little bit, not just not just about the translation itself, but some of the doctrines surrounding Brian Simmons. It's gonna be an interesting program. You guys stay tuned. Hey guys, welcome back to the wonderful world of Remnant Radio. My name is Joshua Lewis. Uh I've got my co-host Michael Miller with us joining uh as we interview David Fish and uh John Mark Baker. So many names, I only have to usually keep up with one. Uh, but we're gonna be diving into this program today. Before we do that, I want to let you know subscribe, like the video, et cetera, et cetera. There's a link in the description if you want to be notified. All things Remnant Radio over at the newsletter. In doing so, you'll get uh discounts on conferences, courses, and everything else. Without further ado, let's uh let's say hi, Miller. Actually, let's just punt punt it over to Miller real quick. Miller, how are you doing over there in the basement? I don't think you're in a basement anymore, but how are you doing, bud?

SPEAKER_09 1:05

Oh, I might be in a basement again. I'm building out my basement with the intention of potentially putting a studio in the basement. So just got uh a little bit, a little bit of time for that to happen. But when that happens, Josh, I may be basement boy once again.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Okay, well, uh off to uh our new guests. Uh people have recognized them, both of them have been on the show multiple times. I've got David Fish and John Mark Baker uh there. Uh guys, uh, give our audience a a little bit of info about you and your ministry. I'll start with David, then we'll jump over to John Mark, uh, and then you guys can give us a kind of map of where we're going today in this program. Uh David, tell us a little about yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Yeah, well, once again, uh always a privilege, guys, to uh to get to do this. And I think what we're gonna talk about today is extremely uh important, and I'm thrilled that we get a chance to talk about it with you guys. Uh man, uh about me, I'm I'm uh a pastor uh and largely a nobody, uh, but just uh plowing away here in in uh Parker County, Texas, uh loving on my people, preaching God's word, and occasionally get the privilege of collaborating with uh John Mark on some content on uh minor prophets. Uh so yeah. John Mark, tell us a little about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yeah, uh John Mark Baker. I am also pastor on staff at Roots Church in uh the Metro Detroit area and uh host a podcast, the Minor Prophets Podcast. Do not claim to be real prophets, but in the spirit of the minor prophets, our channel is dedicated to call pee God's people back to uh covenant faithfulness with himself. And so um it part of that is exposing wolves and uh lies and deception. And I was stunned when David is texting me in like it's almost midnight, and he's like, bro, I think I found the Epstein files of Bible translation. And I was like, I don't know what's going on over here, but I was like, I gotta go to bed, man. We'll talk in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Okay, we and we've all got lawyers, but I need to say on the front end, there was nothing taking place on an island when it came to the passion translation involving uh immorality that we're aware of. So for people who want to take that and run with it, too is not that. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Okay, so uh well, John Mark Baker, he's like he's lawyered up now, so uh he can just say things on the internet.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Hey guys, uh what he meant was there was a deep exposure and cover-up involving the passion translation. David Fish broke the story. Continue.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Hey, I'm just quoting David Fish. So if there's any lawsuits, you can point them right. That's oh boy. So yeah, man, so um he started digging so deeply into what's going on. Uh he he discovered, um, you can see in the video that that we've published, hopefully it is out already by the time of the airing of this episode, but and on the chance that it's not, it is coming soon. Um, he began to dig into uh what were real copying, like plagiarism. Uh that wherever Brian Simmons was quoting from the Aramaic, he wasn't quoting from any known Aramaic source. And by the way, Aramaic is a misnomer, it would have been Syriac. And so we have the Syriac Peshitta, which is basically the um the translation of the Greek into Syriac, and so we we have that, it's extant today. Um, but what Brian was claiming was quote, Aramaic did not align with the Peshitta at all. And as David began to dig, he began to find that it was actually coming from this other really suspicious source. And uh David, I could throw it over to you to sort of take this away from there.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

Well, uh, this is just the uh the props that I have to give. Uh there's a guy named Andrew Chapman that you'll see in our video. Uh, and all credit to him for at least the first section of this, the Aramaic portion, because he actually discovered this uh earlier on, and we we kind of develop how that all went down and the fact that Brian and Broadstreet were totally aware um because this guy was persistent in emailing them and saying, I found this, I've uncovered fraud and deception. And so that whole that whole story is in the video. But uh, but yeah, I mean, as I started to compare, um, I began to notice that if I looked at all the scholarly translations of the Peshitta, most of the time they were identical to the Greek. Like it was very close. Um, like the the Syriac version is not all that different from the Greek New Testament. And Brian in the Passion Translation would have a wild rendering. Um, we'll get to some of them. Um in fact, I don't know if we want to pitch it back or if I should just go ahead and give like an example or two. What do you what do you guys think? Yeah, no, give us a couple examples. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so um specifically, what we're gonna talk about in this one, you you can see a long explanation of the methodology. I'm gonna I don't want to bore people. Um, we have a document that's available where you can actually look at not all of the copying, because it would take me 15 years to find all the copying in the original version of the Passion Translation, but the work that I've been able to do, you can find in that document. Maybe we can leave it on this video as well. Uh, but one of the things that's most striking is in the areas where Brian um completely alters the meaning of a biblical text, most of the time his justification is uh in the footnote, this is from the Aramaic. Uh, and so for example, Colossians 1.24. Um we know uh that Colossians 1.24 in the actual uh Bible um says, Paul says basically it's a strange phrase, right? Interpreters have struggled with it, but he says, I fill up in my body what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ. We can talk about what interpretation is right there, but that's what the text says. Um in the Passion Translation, it reads like this I have experienced, I I can even celebrate the sorrows I've experienced on your behalf, for as I join with you in your difficulties, it helps you to discover what lacks in your understanding of the sufferings of Jesus Christ. So there uh he's altered the meaning of a text. And actually, this one, he doesn't even claim Aramaic. Uh people might be interested to know that what he is copying in this instance is uh Francois de Toy's Mirror Bible, uh, which is basically a heretical version of the Bible uh that's only in use by the most radical fringe of kind of hyper charismatic um universalists and people like that. Um if you do a 50, you know, a side by side, you see in the mirror bible it says, uh, I get the opportunity to reinforce that which might still be lacking in your understanding of the affliction of Christ. So there's a softening of suffering and turning it into what's not uh happening is that Paul is actually suffering, and this is somehow intimately connected to the understanding uh of the sufferings of Christ. No, it's that the people in uh you know the Colossians need to have a better understanding of the sufferings that Christ endured for them. So there's a total omission of Paul's own suffering and the true meaning of that suffering, uh, and it just becomes about you know this this uh spiritual understanding of uh suffering.

SPEAKER_09 8:16

Why would he do that? Well why so I guess two things. You're saying one that he copied it. Do you mean that he plagiarized it from the mirror bible? He didn't actually do any translating work of his own in this passage, but then secondarily, why would he do that? Not necessarily the the uh copying of somebody else's or plagiarism, but the changing of that uh wording there. What is to be gained uh by doing so? What's he hoping, what what theology is he trying to promote by doing so?

SPEAKER_03 8:45

Those are uh great questions. Uh, one of the reasons we tend to use the word copying is because, frankly, I don't actually know if there's a legal threshold uh of what's plagiarism and not plagiarism. And so we tend to use the word copying because what Brian uh doesn't do, obviously, and nobody who plagiarizes or copies does this. He doesn't take every single word and import it wholesale. But once you begin to see the pattern, which we lay out in the video, um, you begin to see that he takes entire phrases and he might even take 10 to 12 words, copy and paste them from another translation, and then change one or two of the words so that the sentence is not just completely identical. But in each and every circumstance, when he copies or plagiarizes, it is uh the the reading in the Passion Translation matches only one eccentric paraphrase or uh translation. So it's not possible that this is just an accident. I have uh 437 highlights in my document of Paul's epistles alone. Uh and let's just say that represents about 300 plus instances of copying. Um, but the second question is a great one, uh, Miller, because what you have to do in that instance to ask the question of why is you have to see what the pattern is. And the pattern in the Passion Translation is inserting a word of faith style theology of healing and suffering that systematically softens, um, for example, it softens uh references to judgment. Um, so it it in uh elsewhere in Philippians or Colossians, he changes uh children of disobedience to deeds of disobedience and clarifies in the footnotes that what God is judging is not the people, but their actions, uh, which is totally the opposite of the meaning of the passage. And so there's a lessening of judgment. But in this instance, there's a lessening of suffering. So if we go to uh 2 Timothy, um every time Paul continues, uh, like in the ESV, in 2 Timothy, it says, uh, therefore, do not be ashamed of my testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God. That's actually God's actual word, as translated faithfully from the original text. The Passion translation says, Um, never be ashamed of my testimony, nor be embarrassed over my imprisonment, but overcome every evil by the revelation of the power of God. Um, this happens at least two or three times in the book of uh 2 Timothy alone, where the word suffering, where Paul says, I participate in suffering, I suffer for this reason, becomes overcome evil. And elsewhere he says, Um, I overcome evil, uh, overcome every form of evil as a victorious soldier. So we don't even have the word overcome. Now it's victorious is added as well. And if you've ever kind of met people in that kind of word of faith camp, this is the exact kind of language they use. Oh, I'm not, I'm not suffering or I'm not battling a sickness, I'm overcoming this sickness. I'm not I'm not suffering, I don't have pain, I don't have a sickness, my knee doesn't hurt, I am gaining the victory over this. And so this happens elsewhere when he inserts a totally uh foreign phrase uh where he says, I think it's in Philippians, where he talks about uh that as believers we die to diseases, and it's totally not in the text, and he adds it in. And so the point is that begins to clarify his motive, which is to lessen suffering, lessen judgment, and insert a kind of word of faith style, overcoming victory, prosperity, healing theology into the text.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, when it when it comes to lessening judgment, we have an example from John 15 2, which talks about every branch in me that does not bear fruit, he cuts off. You know, the Greek word is aero, which means to take up, right? So it's it's to prune, it's to cut, to trim, and every English translation translates it uh in similar ways, you know, uh cut off or or to trim, or even to take away. Um but Brian translates it this way: he cares for the branches connected to me by lifting and propping up the fruitless branches. So what was taking away, he is lifting and propping up. And in the footnotes, he puts this the Greek phrase uh can be translated, he takes up, and then he puts in brackets to himself. Well, it's really take away, but he says takes up to himself, and he's just cuddling these fruitless branches. Um never mind that the context in verse six sort of forbids that from being the uh the case, right? These are branches that are thrown into the fire and burnt. Um, this is a this is a pronouncement of judgment, and Brian has has completely inverted its meaning to be that of caring for, loving, uh tenderly caressing these fruitless branches or something like that.

SPEAKER_09 13:29

It sounds like he's flirting with universalism. If you have such an aversion to suffering and judgment, you're usually going to fall in that camp. And so do you guys know if he has that as a position?

SPEAKER_00 13:42

I I don't know that. I don't know if he has that as a position. Um, but he hangs out with people that do hold that as a position. Uh, one of those being Justin Paul Abraham. He's done um at least two conferences with Justin Paul Abraham and then did a podcast with him. Um they sound very similar. When you hear them talk, you will you will hear them say like uh reference really obscure things like the Maseroth, which is this um Jewish zodiac that is mentioned in passing once in in Job, but it's really just sort of like to uh God is is explaining his greatness. Can you make the Maseroth uh you know turn or whatever? And uh so it's a reference to the passing of seasons that God is able to cause things to come into being. Um there's a similar word, uh uh it's like Masaloth or something like that, uh, that is referenced later in the Old Testament, and it was like associated with idolatry that I think it was King Josiah came and uh destroyed. So, like this is something that is uh not associated with real, even even ancient Judaism and faithfulness to Yahweh, but both Justin Abraham and Brian Simmons uh label it as something that it is lamentable that the new age has co-opted for themselves, which is a red flag for me.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

It's a red flag for anyone who's using any kind of discernment and has read a read the Bible. Um I I'll tell you what, uh yeah, I've I I've watched quite a few of these videos, and it sounds like there's almost a Kabbalah-esque sort of Jewish mysticism that has um invaded some of the thinking there when it comes to mystically reading a lot of these texts. Hey guys, let's we've got a whole you've got a whole video on going through all of the various translations and their intents. You know, uh David, you called me, kind of walked me through, and showed me where there was plagiarism from the passion, or there's plagiarism from the mirror bible, or there's plagiarism from the message, where there's plagiarism from the New Living Translation, or the tree the the N E T or something like that. Like the the anyway, so over and over again, you've showed, look, this is clear plagiarism, this is bad. And I think for people out there watching, you need to go watch that full video because it carefully walks through this guy who has essentially said, Jesus has come to me at other times, he will deny it now, saying that an angel had come to him named Passion, and now he has this like supernatural revelation, and he's able to, you know, translate these things. He's not translating at all. In fact, when you call the people that said, Yeah, uh, he was a translator with us, when you call them, they go, No, no, no, he was not a translator with us. Brian had falsified his translation credentials. He had worked essentially as a missionary alongside these individuals that were translators, and he used that as a way to get credit from these individuals as a valid translator, which he is not.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

Uh, let me talk a little bit if we can, if we're okay with switching gears. I talked about Brian's training and credentials.

SPEAKER_05 16:49

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

I did like some investigative reportive type of job here. Nobody's writing on this stuff, right? Online, I couldn't find anybody who is really soberly confronting the passion. At least there's a couple people, right? Um, but but not enough. And I didn't find the content I wanted. So I wanted to know what is Brian's training. Well, on his website, on the Passion Translation website, in interviews, on the Broad Street publishing website, that's the one who's publishing the book. Um it says that he was a co-translator for the kuna translation of the New Testament. And he also claims there in multiple places that he has linguistic and a biblical languages background.

SPEAKER_08 17:13

And God helped us. Uh I had some linguistic training in our New Tribes uh training years of New Tribes training, so I had some skill that I didn't realize that I even had until I got into this jungle village. So we had to, we had to decipher the language, develop an alphabet, a grammar, we had to discern and decipher the grammar structure and how to form sentences and the entire thing.

SPEAKER_05 17:31

So uh that took us the first two years while we were there. It was difficult. We had to break down their language, do a linguistic analysis. We learned their language, translated the scripture, uh the New Testament as a co-translator, along with a Wycliffe of the translator, and uh were able to hand them a completed New Testament in the late 80s, to the New Testament in the late 80s, saying humbly, I have qualifications in that I have translated the New Testament as a co-translator for the Payakuna language.

SPEAKER_04 17:53

They've changed names. They used to be called New Tribes back in the 80s. They've changed their name now to Ethnos 360, but it's the same organization. So I called Ethnos 360 and I got a hold of two of the guys that work there. One is Don Don Peterson. Uh Don Peterson, or I forget, it's Peterson now, trying to remember how he pronounced his name. Um here's what Don said about Brian Simmons. Now, Don's actually speaking from Ethnos 360. He's speaking from the people Brian says trained him. And he says, Brian is not a linguist of any sort. Uh-huh. Wait, wh I'm like, wait a minute, you mean he doesn't even have credentials? Because you can have credentials and produce a bad translation, but if you don't even have credentials and you're claiming to, now I think you're deceitful. Let me give you more details on this, because there's a lot more. He said he had experience, right? Not just credentials of training, but experience that he has actually translated. Um he said, and I'll quote, he says, we had, this is Brian's claims about himself, we had to decipher the language, develop an alphabet, we had to discern and decipher the grammar structure. That took us the first two years while we were there. I mean, obviously, when he says we, he must mean himself, right? And I've got I've got the interview already said this on my uh YouTube channel. Um so the implication is that Brian was integral and formative in this translation happening. Okay, well, Jerry McDaniels, who worked with the Kuna people, the same people Brian says he translated the Bible for, he worked with them for over 30 years, Jerry McDaniels. And he works for Ethnos 360, right, at that time, New Tribe's mission. He says nobody in our mission would ever say that he is a Bible translator or ever was approved as a Bible translator. Oh, Brian's he's lying. This blew my mind. He's literally lying about his history, which is why I don't trust his visions.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Tons and tons of work, but but over and over and over again, what you're gonna see is that this guy is a liar. He's been lying to the body of Christ, he's been peddling uh a book uh that he has compiled from other people's work and research, and then he has slapped on that work that this is a revelation from God meant to really connect you with the heart of God in a way that other translations just can't. Uh, he is a grifter who is pedaling a new version of snake oil in the form of a passion translation. So uh those are my thoughts. You can you can send me an email if you don't like them. Anyway, um uh uh let's dive into uh what we're talking about today, which is more of the uh nitty-gritties of uh Brian Simmons theology. We've got quite a few clips that we're gonna work through. David, you want to kind of uh set us up and let us know what what we're gonna be walking through uh in these videos?

SPEAKER_03 20:01

Yeah, absolutely. And it goes without saying that what you're gonna hear in this video, uh, well, I mean all of these videos, there's as you said, there's many of them, uh, is a particular theology about the return of Christ. And uh the passion translation, as I'm gonna just interject very briefly after one or two of these clips, uh, actually reflects the theology that Brian's about to unpack, right? And so everybody who's ever mentioned the dangers of a one-man translation, let alone a one-man stitched-together compilation of heresies and other people's resources and all of that. But when it's done by one person, there's the temptation to just insert your views. Brian does this at will. But basically, what we're gonna see is that Brian has this very unique idea of the book of Revelation. And, well, I say unique, it's not unique, it's the Latteran Manifested Sons of God theology. And if you're watching and you think, oh, well, people always use that, the heresy hunters always use that as a stick to beat people. Um he's not gonna have any make any bones about it. He's gonna openly teach that in the last days, uh, Romans 8, rather than referring to a future physical resurrection of the body, um, you know, 1 Corinthians 15, rather than that being this one-time moment, 1 Thessalonians 4, rather than the Lord descending from heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel and the sounding of a trumpet and the dead in Christ rising, what's actually gonna happen is Christ is going to be unveiled or return in his people in the glorious manifested sons of God. He'll use the phrase Joel's army, he'll do the whole nine yards. Um, you can look up manifested sons of God theology, but that's really the essence of what we're gonna look at. Um, and some of it's pretty shocking.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Yeah, that's totally fair. So people who are listening, that you're gonna see from Brian Simmons is not that um Jesus doesn't oh well how do we say this? When Jesus is returning, but the way he is returning is through the manifestation of the body of Christ. So, like you and I are the body, there's an over. Realized view of this to say that when we come into fullness, Christ has returned in some sense. Now, where all of that gets stretched out to the nth degree, we'll address as we go. Uh, do you guys just want to start rolling through the clips, David, or do you want to address anything specifically? Uh like one clip after the other?

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Uh maybe we should have a caveat here. Um it seems as though Brian is denying the second coming in some way. We have evidence of him affirming the uh the set the physical return of Christ, but he he makes uh he does a lot of stuff to sort of um undermine that, and it's confusing to understand why would somebody who affirms the physical return of Jesus be teaching things the way he's teaching them. And you will just sort of have to maybe make sense of this yourself as you're watching these clips, but I feel like it's fair to put the warning out up front that um we have found instances, we had to look really hard, but we have found instances of Brian affirming the physical return of Jesus. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Okay. Are you guys ready? Flip one? Okay.

SPEAKER_08 23:15

So this solid realm has got to capture this generation. I'm telling the millennials will go for it. They're not going to buy into our cheesy eschatology. If if the Bible is really about love and finding Jesus on every page, what do you think you would expect to find in a book called The Unveiling of Jesus Christ? What would you expect?

SPEAKER_02 23:36

That that's his version of the book of Revelation.

SPEAKER_08 23:40

French lessons, uh cooking lessons of how to make Hungarian goulash? No, if you buy a book and the title, it should tell you what's in there, right? You're deceived if you buy a book and what's inside. The context doesn't match the title. Well, the title of the book holds it all. It's the unveiling of Jesus Christ. If you make anything other than that, including a map of future events, it's not a manual of what's coming. It's a manual who is coming. He's coming. And he's coming in a people that reveal him. The unveiling. All of creation is not waiting for rapture. It's not groaning and travailing for a second coming, which is not in the Bible. The word second coming is not there. Sorry. Actually, if he came at Pentecost, that would be a second. He'd come to me a couple times. He's come to Muslim imams all over the world. He's come to people repeatedly over and over. How many comings do we need? What if parousia, the Greek word for coming, what if we've never understood it? Parousia has nothing to do with from far to near. There's other ways in Greek you can say that. Parousia is something that's near you and is unveiled and suddenly revealed. It's been there all the time. Except it's not near us, it's in us. And the unveiling is our unveiling. That's what creation is growing for. Who will silence creation's grow? Who will become the cloud company that brings him back?

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Okay, I would like to note just the irony. He says if you have a book and its title is not the contents of what is in the book, you are being deceived. And he wrote a book called The Passion Translation, which you guys proved is not a translation.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

So people who he just told the whole audience that uh they're deceived if they're reading his book.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

I think the irony there is pretty rich. Uh David, take it away, man.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Yeah, so uh, I mean, I I'm really not trying to be uh facetious. Um you gotta have some grace on John Mark and I. We have been drowning in Brian's deceptions for a couple of weeks now, so I might not be as kind as I may have been a couple weeks ago, but I'll start with this. Basically, every single word that just came out of his mouth was completely wrong. Uh, theologically wrong, factually wrong. Like I'll just start with uh parousia. The apostle Paul frequently uses the word parousia to describe the coming of one individual from one place in the Roman Empire to another. Uh, and so he'll say at the end of his letters, you know, like Titus has come to you, or Titus is coming to you, and he'll he'll use the word parousia. So it literally does mean frequently in the New Testament, someone going from one place uh to another. The second thing I'll say is that Brian, when he talks about this issue, uh, argues like a Muslim. Why do I say that? Muslims will say the Trinity is not real because the word Trinity is not in the Bible. This is the this is Brian's whole shtick with the second coming, is he takes the literal words second coming and he goes all around the country. He said this, I think, at least five to ten times that that I've caught him thus far, where he says there's no such thing as a second coming in the Bible. Okay, bro, but you go to Hebrews 9.27 and it says he will appear for a second time. Like, so the the the word games I find to be incredibly silly and incredibly dishonest. Um, that you're doing the same Trinity is not in the Bible, therefore there's no Trinity, with there's no the word second coming is not in the Bible, therefore there's not a second coming, but yet there is a physical return of Christ, but yet his second coming was at Pentecost. So the point is not even just that uh Brian's only view is heretical, because again, he has articulated you know, formally kind of this statement of I do believe in the physical return of Christ. But then he says he doesn't believe in the second coming, and then he says something that uh there's a very particular strain of full preterists that do believe that the return of Christ was at Pentecost. And so to say the second coming was at Pentecost is an incredibly misleading thing to say. It doesn't matter if you add on, Jesus will also physically return. What you're doing is you're creating confusion in the body of Christ and you're taking away people's actual hope, which in the New Testament is the resurrection of the body. That is what creation is groaning for. Creation is not groaning for an end-time movement of hyper-charismatics that was prophesied by Bob Jones. Um, creation is groaning for restoration, namely the physical return of Christ, the bodily resurrection of the saints, and the new creation.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

So, Mark, any additional thoughts? Yeah, uh, unfortunately, I have a lot. Uh so for somebody who, you know, he will say, uh, I there's a clip of him saying, I have been uh, I can't remember, like mistakenly, people mistakenly believe that I deny the second coming of Jesus. And I wonder why that would be. I maybe it's because you say stuff like, you know, these these dogmas that we have, the second coming, uh like uh it's not even in the Bible. Like, if if you were to talk to somebody and they were to say, you know, the word Trinity is not in the Bible, what do you think their intention is? It's usually to undermine the doctrine of the Trinity. Um, and so when you begin to teach this way, it naturally leads people to these types of conclusions. Um but here's what he's doing. Um, and you'll see it in some of the other clips that we have. Um, he is consistently taking what is uh something about Christ, the revelation of Jesus Christ, right? That is that is the title of the book, and it's the revelation of Jesus Christ in us. It he takes stuff that's about Jesus and consistently in the Passion Translation, he makes it all about us. This is Ephesians 3.20 in the Passion Translation. If you were to read this in a real Bible, in fact, maybe one of you guys can pull it up while I'm reading from the Passion Translation. Um, this is what this is what Ephesians 3.20 says in Brian's version. Never doubt God's mighty power to work in you and accomplish all this. He will achieve infinitely more than your greatest request, your most unbelievable dream, and exceed your wildest imagination. He will outdo them all, for his miraculous power constantly energizes you. Um so what does what does Ephesians 3 twenty say? Is that just one verse? Yeah, just one verse.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

That wasn't three verses. Okay, three twenty says, Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we can ask, imagine according to the power that has worked within us. Uh New King James says, now unto him that is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us. Uh New King James is gonna be pretty similar. I mean, I I got that was the NIV and the King James that are right side by side.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Well, did you notice the shift of focus there? Like it went from uh, you know, the Bible, it's all about now to him. And it it it talks about his power and his generosity as God, that he would condescend to to be able to like um do immeasurably more than even we could imagine him doing, but it's all about him. Here it is vote for Pedro and all of your wildest dreams will come true. Like this is what's going on, like like it this is he takes what is all about Jesus and it's praise to God, and he makes it all about wish fulfillment for us. This is uh this is what's going on with his revelation of God in you, right? It's not about the revelation of Jesus Christ, it's a revelation of you, and this is the consistent theme that I find in Brian. Uh everything that he does seems to have the same through through line.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Yeah, the larger context of Ephesians 3, too, for the listener, uh Paul's like, I'm praying for you that you be rooting in God and love, to have strength comprehended together with all the saints, breadth link, depth, height, and into the love of God. Know the love of God that surpasses knowledge, that you be full with all the fullness of God. And I paraphrased right quickly there. But then he goes to him who's able to do exceedingly abundantly. The reason is because he goes, Hey, I want you to know God's love, this measurable part. I want you to experience God's love, to know a love that surpasses knowledge, and then and then he goes to so that you be filled with all the fullness of God. Now, for the ancient Near Eastern person, they go, I can't be filled with all of God. He's God, I'm just a physical person. That's crazy thought. That's crazy talk. And then he says, to him who's able to do exceedingly abundantly beyond all you can ask or think. The point is to say, you need to know the love of God for you, how great God is. I pray that you know the Spirit would root you and ground you in this love, and to do that all in the church so that you can see Jesus all the more. And and and then him who's able to do exceeding what that that passage in Ephesians 3.20, even in regular translations, people have used to say, Oh, well, I have this desire that God's gonna do crusades, and you know what, you know, and people are gonna get healed and revival's gonna happen and demons are gonna cast out. And if I can think it, then he's gonna be able to do exceedingly more than I can ask or think. It's like that's not what the text is saying. The text is answering the natural concern that people would have with the idea of being full with uh the fullness of God. Um, so I again this text isn't to say your your wildest dreams and whatever you imagine is is going to you know take root, but again, this is where you can see a theology from that movement working its way into a translation. Miller, you got any got any additional thoughts, my friend?

SPEAKER_09 32:57

Yeah, well, I I think it's heretical. Uh first off, manifest sons of God, the replacement of God with you. Uh, we kind of see that as a theme throughout every major uh not every heresy, but most heresies that come out. Um I think of moral therapeutic deism, right? It's about you being a moral person because that makes you feel good about you, and at the end of the day, that's what you worship. Um or I think about Gnosticism. It's all about you getting special secret knowledge so that you can ascend. Um and honestly, most of the new age is all about, you know, they'll treat Christ like he's an ascended master, uh, and they will also try to ascend like him. Um so instead of it being about the revealing of Christ, it really is about the greater revelation of who you are. You see the same kind of language when it comes to uh glory that I think we're gonna mention here in a bit about Christ sharing his glory with us, how Brian would uh would teach that. So yeah, it's kind of I'm I'm actually astonished that this is so popular. And the back of my head I keep wondering, how is it people fell for this so easily? Like this is I'm just kind of shocked. I mean, this was being promoted at Bethel, they were selling it at their bookshops, it's in charismatic Christian Drew. Um, a number of people from my old church upper room were all into this, many of them embracing Christian Universalism. I I can't I can't understand how this became so popular. Um I mean, I mean it probably should surprise me, but it doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

I don't I think it makes perfect sense for those communities. I mean, you you and I both know that the the I hops in the upper rooms have really been able to snag people in with this idea that this is a lot bigger than just you. This we're the tip of the spear of ministry, and it's it's really difficult to sell a group of young people on, hey guys, look, what we're gonna do is we're gonna we're gonna spend time in some prayer, we're gonna spend time reading our Bibles, we're gonna live a quiet life working with our hands, we're going to faithfully serve our city, uh, we're gonna proclaim the gospel, and we're gonna die and be forgotten. It's not super sexy, there's not a bunch of glory entailed on it, but if you can tell people, you're gonna have the full manifest power and identity of Jesus manifest inside of your life. And we're part of this in times army that's going to conquer and going to rule. There's like this illusion of grandeur that comes alongside it that people want to be a part of. So I think that the staying power that we're seeing in a lot of these like real hoorah. And again, don't get me wrong, I think we should preach the gospel. I should, I we should push back the kingdom of darkness, but but I think it's painfully ordinary, the the life of a Christian that we're called to live. And at times it doesn't look as sparkly as we'd like to make it out to be. Uh, and and that's hard to be honest with that sales pitch, and you know, woo a large crowd. So I I think that's what's happening. I think one of the things that was mentioned at the end of this clip was he mentioned this cloud of witnesses, uh, and that's gonna be integral to Brian's theology. He's gonna make the claim that Jesus, you're gonna have to watch the clip because we've got it, but essentially became the cloud when he ascended off of the Mount of Transfiguration and that he like he he took on cloud form, like boom, I've changed my essence. I'm no longer a homoousias with the father or homoousias with humanity. My being has been translated to cloud stuff. Uh that is heresy. Again, I I think it's unintended. Um, and maybe he would clarify, uh, but it is objectively heresy. But he's arguing that okay, Jesus becomes this cloud in his ascension, and then the church is referred to as a cloud a couple times in the Bible, like the great cloud of witnesses in Hebrews. So he's gonna make the argumentation that Jesus no longer bodily, now is a cloud, and now how does he come to the church? As this cloud. The church is Jesus, we are the body of Christ, but again, that's gonna be an over-realized view, not the hands and feet of Jesus in the earth, but like the the body of Jesus, that Jesus is no longer bodily, you know, incarnate, which is the highest hand of heresy throughout church history. Um we'll we'll tackle that here in a moment. Uh, gentlemen, is there anything you want to add to this section before we jump on to the next one? No, okay. I think what I'll do is I'll play clip two and three because I think clip two is quite short and it would be nice to pair them together. Good idea.

SPEAKER_08 37:22

I know when Jesus is coming back. When we bring him we bring him back. If the second coming, which is not in the Bible. It's amazing how many eschatological dogmat dogmatic doctrines we built around terms that are not even in the Bible. Rapture, millennium, second coming. Those words are not found in the scripture.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

The Trinity.

SPEAKER_08 37:55

God's plan is not to rapture the church out of the earth, but to unveil a people in the earth that represent that represent Him fully, that we will become a look-alike partner, a radiant bride of Jesus. It's called the Unveiling. Interestingly, the last book in the Bible. The title of the book is Unveiling. It's the unveiling not of Antichrist, not of the mark of the beast, not of a world system. It's the unveiling of Jesus. And every symbol, every nuance, every word of this book brings us closer to that unveiling, the parousia of the Lord Jesus. Those of you that have taken the first course, you know the word parousia, the common word for the coming of the Lord. Parousia has nothing to do with distance. It has nothing to do with location. It's not like the train is coming or the rain is coming. No, parousia means appearing. It's something that's always been there and suddenly it manifests. And in this case, it is him. The coming of the Lord is literally the becoming of Christ. That he comes in a people that look like him, that represent him, that are a cloud company of lovers of God that will release his glory to the earth. I hope you're ready to be a part of that beautiful company of glorified saints.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Dude, this is so sneaky because he's like, he can get the whole crowd on board with this is all about Jesus, and then sneakily be actually it's all about you becoming Jesus. Like it's super sneaky and real crafty because he can sound Christocentric. It's all about Jesus, it's all about who's gonna keep their guard up hearing it's all about Jesus. Of course, that's right. And then you hear the way that Jesus comes is through you. So it's actually like you're the focus, um, not Jesus, which again is is kind of wild. Uh David, take it away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Uh but I want to point out uh a couple of things. Again, this this cloud company thing, not only uh, as you pointed out, Josh, is there kind of the Mount of Transfiguration piece, but he has this whole reading of how clouds are actually people uh throughout the Bible. And I don't know if we have a separate clip for that, but if not, I'll just say it now. Um so he will say brazenly, Jesus is not coming on the clouds, he's coming in a people. The people are the clouds. When you take away every reference to Jesus coming on the clouds, you take away the majority of references to the second coming of Christ. And when he talks about spatial language, you know, again, it's so silly because what he says about uh Perseus is completely wrong. The second thing is, again, in 1 Thessalonians 4, Paul says the Lord himself will descend from heaven, and so the Bible commands us implicitly to use spatial language to describe the return of Christ and the catching up of God's people. This is, and again, I don't think any of us are uh premillennial or you know dispensational, right? I so none of us necessarily believe in the rapture as articulated in the 19th century, but there will be a directional physical catching up of God's people, and so it's literally just like a count the amount of heresies, because the other thing he says there, which is very sneaky, and he goes to Romans 8, and he loves to do this. He does this over and over again, where he goes, the word glorified in Romans 8 is past tense. You've already been glorified, and so the unveiling is God's people realizing that they've already been glorified. Now, of course, any person who studied the Bible for more than five minutes knows that Paul is speaking about eternity past, and in God who is himself outside of time, all of redemption has already been accomplished for God. And so God sees our glorification as if it were past tense. No, not a single Christian has ever believed that the glorification of humanity, of all human beings, happens in its fullness prior to the physical return of Christ. So that in itself is another heresy.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Yes, good John Mark. Yeah, so notice he says it's not about the coming of Jesus, it's the becoming of Jesus. Um, we become him. And it's not in the in the typical Christian sense of like we are the body of Christ the same way that we have been for 2,000 years, right? That would be normal common sense, like, hey, I'm part of Christ, I've been united with him. That's been true of the church from from the beginning, right? He's pointing to a future reality where there will be a a company of people that that actually manifest Jesus by becoming him in some in some way. And I, you know, how could anybody think that he would deny the second coming of Jesus? You know, like it's it's it it baffles the mind that uh that Brian would be surprised that people would think that he denies the second coming of Jesus when he talks about it in this way. Um he talks about it being uh an appearing, but I just want to contrast what Brian says the second coming is with what uh the Bible says in Acts 1.11. Men of Galilee, they said, this is the angels. Why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus who has been taken from you into heaven will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven. So the same way you saw him go into heaven, he will return that same exact way. This this precludes this idea of like there's this special manifested sons of God that will become this Christian, these Christian superheroes with these superpowers that you will feel the glory of God off of them for 10 miles around, you know, and they'll fall out in the spirit. And he begins to there's tons of clips that aren't gonna make it into this episode, but he he begins to describe what he thinks that this this um manifested sons of God reality will be. And he's he Is piggybacking off of prophecies from Bob Jones, from Paul Kane, it talk about stadium Christianity, and it there's so much of what he's saying that really is tied into the IHOP prophetic history, and we don't even pull on that thread in either this video or the next one. Somebody else is gonna have to do that.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

Let me add one little bit for color here. This will this will be really quick. Uh this will blow y'all's mind. Now, if you just read this in the Passion Translation without having seen any of these clips, you you might find a way to rationalize what he says. Um, and in terms of strict lexical meaning, technically the passage can mean this, but when you've just heard everything that you've heard, now listen to Colossians 2, uh verses 16 and 17 in the Passion Translation. And again, somebody can pull up uh another English translation, none of them will say what the Passion Translation says here. Listen to this. So why would you allow anyone to judge you because of what you eat or drink, or insist that you keep the feasts, observe new moon celebrations, or the Sabbath? All these were but a prophetic shadow, and the evidence of what would be fulfilled, listen to this, for the body is now Christ. Now, what Paul is saying there is just as a body casts a shadow, right, the body is the substance of the thing, and the shadow is just that. It's just a shadow, it's just something um that's not actually part of the body um itself. But when you hear everything Brian has just said, do you see how actually I really do believe after all of these clips that Brian intended to slip in a reference to say the body is the fulfillment, the body of Christ is the fulfillment of the typology of scripture, such that there's not really a need for a second coming, because the body is now Christ. We are Him.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

No, that's right. The uh standard the English standard version, therefore let no one pass judgment on you in question of food or of drink, the regards of festival, new moons, or sabbath, or a Sabbath. These are the shadows of things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. So again, in this picture it says, hey, that's the shadow. G all of this is has been pointing to the person of Jesus. We now have this substance that is in Christ. We can see him, we can see, oh, yep, he looks just like the shadow, but he's not the shadow. This is the substance, and there's no reference to the body here, uh the body of believers here. Um but that's in that's a sneaky little import for sure. Uh Miller, I haven't got any commentary from you.

SPEAKER_09 46:31

Yeah, I'll be brief. It reminds me a lot of what I see in many charismatic churches where they'll say stuff like, Man, that's a real Rhema word of God. And and by that, they they distinguish between logos and rhema, being logos is a written word, rhema being a spoken or revelatory thing. And so there becomes this obsession with novelty, trying to find new things in scripture that nobody's ever seen before. Um, because the the word of God is living and active. And so by that they mean you should find new interpretation. Um, and there there is in that world an obsession with hearing new things. And I tell my church all the time this if you find yourself in a church service and you're hearing something, you're going, wow, I've never heard this. That really shouldn't be your reaction. Your reaction should be, huh, I've never heard this. And that should be a red flag. Uh and be a Buriant, go and see if it's actually there. But it shouldn't be causing you to suddenly be ooing and awing. Rather, it should cause you to have some little bit of apprehension and soberness, going, I need to fact check this. And so I'm I'm thinking of uh 1 Timothy 4, which says, For a time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. Um no pun intended. Suit their own passion. Catch that pun very much intended. Um but that's kind of what's happening here. Like he is the the people who uh embrace this person's teaching, they are the ones who want to accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. Uh and Brian himself is doing that, he is baking into the text of scripture what he himself wants it to say rather than what it says. Um, and that is very concerning. There needs to be, I think. This is heresy. Like I don't know how else to look at it. Sorry, you go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

No, I thought I thought you were done. I apologize, my friend. Uh I think that there is a there's a need also for the believer to, you know, go pick up Iron Ace's book against the heresies, because he is addressing uh a teaching called Gnosticism. And I don't want to say that this is Gnosticism proper, but it does seem to be some kind of new neo-Gnosticism. So within Gnosticism, it's essentially this teaching. Um I'm not gonna touch everything, but that when the God that created this world, when he did so, wisdom tricked him into breathing out his divinity into humanity. And what humanity has to do is they actually have to come into the secret knowledge to reveal their own divinity so that they can live out that divinity. Now, again, what Brian seems to be arguing is that there needs to be this unveiling and this revealing of Christ manifest in us. And what is that, but not a secret knowledge that reveals that God, the God part of us that comes out. Uh so I would just I would I would caution the the the believer, and I would say in some sense, uh we all Christians, and according to Ephesians 3, uh do believe that there is some kind of transformative work that happens when we gaze upon Christ. Um but there's a helpful illustration with this, with the iron and the fire. The iron gets hot like the fire is hot, the iron gets red like the fire is red, the iron can even glow like the fire glows, but the iron never becomes the fire. There is a distinction between energies and essence. We are partakers of the divine essence, but our essence, our nature, doesn't change in that process. We will stay human for all eternity. When he appears, we'll be like him, but we will not be him. We won't be of the same substance. We will be of a different kind in the sense that we will be infused with the energies of God, but never taking on that new essence. So I say all that to say, and you go, it's a bunch of theological fancy words. I go, well, listen, there's a there's an orthodox picture of theosis that is God honoring, and then there's a version of theosis that is also uh heretical. Um we don't become fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, twentieth members, two thousand members of the trinity. That's not a thing. There are three persons of the Godhead, not an infinite number. And that that distinction really, really matters because it creates a distinction between the creator and the created. Um when we try to become the creator, Adam and the garden, things backfire. Uh that that's that's where you know all these kind of word of faith guys are saying that we can speak things into existence because they're claiming to have that essence, that same, that same God spark that was in God, it now resides in us. So so this is not just a I want to make sure that people understand the level of danger that's here, that when we begin to elevate ourselves into this kind of theosis state of being God, um, because these next few clips essentially are are going to make that case for me that that Brian is pushing the envelope closer and closer to that reality. Um I'll punt it over to everybody. One last say on these clips, or do we want to watch the next two?

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Uh okay. I say we we could probably just run through the rest of the clips, you know, and then comment on all of them. Sounds good.

SPEAKER_07 51:39

I mean, I'll I'll just throw a teaser at you. It says that Jesus is coming metanepheli. Greek is meta-nepheli, the fellow clouds, meta is inside or within. He's coming within clouds, not monica.

unknown 51:52

He's coming out.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Sorry if this sounds weird. Winger sent me this video, and it was really ambient in the room, so I had to use AI to like fix the audio. So I apologize if it sounds the next two clips sound odd.

SPEAKER_07 52:03

This is a cloud enveloped it, surrounded him. So he goes, he went into cloud form when he went into the heavenly realm, and he's coming back, net and a fele. Eight times in the Bible, clouds are people.

SPEAKER_08 52:16

He's coming in a cloud company. Isaiah 6, verse 60, verse 8. You didn't read Isaiah 60 far enough. You're stuck with you know the greater glory is gonna cover the earth and the greatest light shining upon you, and the boy of the Lord's rising, but let's work. But you didn't get the verse eight.

SPEAKER_07 52:29

Who are these? That soar in the heavens like clouds, and fly like doves.

SPEAKER_08 52:36

Portals? A cloud company is coming. The world of the Ohem is coming in his pride, not just for when is he coming? When will we bring him back? I tell you, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you things that maybe you've not heard before. Please leave your stones behind. Well, a wise person will listen and ponder and weigh what I'm saying, and then check it out with the Bible, what the Bible says. I want to be left behind, right? So the clouds that ring twice are a company of people. 14 times three equals I dare you to read it. There's not 42, there's only 41. There's a missing generation. I've read it 20 times, maybe 25 times. There's only 41 names listed. It's because we are the missing generation that completes the genealogy of Jesus. We are a 42nd generation because Christ is no longer a person. He's now a body, he's a corporate expression. It's as though Christ is upon the earth again in his people, for we are the body of the body.

SPEAKER_09 53:47

It's like Jonathan Welton's, we're the fourth day.

SPEAKER_08 54:03

They stopped 42 times. So I'm gonna write a book on the 42 steps into Christ-likeness. I mean, get me in trouble in some circles, but I have a feeling I can say it here. You say kind of nothing. Everything you love about Jesus is who you will be. It's your calling to be him, to be a look-alike, to be that perfect match that the father can't tell which one is who.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Father can't tell which one is so that that affects the father's omniscience. Is that the end? I love the clip. I love no, no, there's one more. Uh okay. I love God's omniscience and his all-powered.

SPEAKER_08 54:47

He's waiting for a bride to become mature. And there are a number of things, I found eight at least, biblical truths that must take place before the second coming, which is not in the Bible. That phrase is not found in Scripture, but what the church calls the second coming, there are a number of things that must happen. So I tell people, unpack your bags, we're gonna be here a while, get off your rapture rug, let's build the kingdom, let's show our family the love of God and build ministries for a hundred years, not to just get, you know, I hope we're all be ready, you know.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Rapture rug liner would make more sense. I don't know what why he said rapture rug.

SPEAKER_08 55:33

But we live in a realm where we want to have Christ's fullness come out of us. The apostolic mandate is not simply to plant churches and build networks like Amway. The apostolic mandate is to bring the fullness of Christ out of the people of God. He's on the board of the bringing ministry that brings the fullness. Galatians 4 19, Paul says, I labor and travail as an apostle of Christ until he himself is formed in you.

SPEAKER_00 56:09

That would be Cheyan's network. He's on the scholar leadership team.

SPEAKER_02 56:16

What's wild is it's like how how do we see people transformed into the image of Christ? It's like, oh, you mean teaching them to observe all that he's commanded in church?

SPEAKER_08 56:27

The formation of Christ, what I call the transfiguration of the church, is the next thing on God's timetable. The same faith that justifies you is the faith that glorifies you, and a glorified bride will walk this planet. That there will be a people whom he justified, he also glorified. Dude, that's past tense, any language you put it in. Those he justified, he also, listen, past tense glorified. The same faith that brought us justification must be the faith we trust in and the love we rely upon to bring us into glorification. The transfiguration was not just an event, it's a prophecy of the last days people. That there will be a people on the earth that reflect the glory of God, even as Jesus did on that mountain. A shining company are coming. Shining company is coming. Daniel 12, 3. Shining ones are coming. There will be a people who radiate the glory of God from miles around them. Radiation zones of his presence will be established here in San Diego, and rumor has it. Other places. The OC.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

I don't know what that's about. Here's the last clip.

SPEAKER_06 58:01

She says, her skin, I belong to my lover. This is really good, guys. This is so awesome. I believe there's so much depth in verse 10 that it's a shame that I raced through it, but it this belonged to my lover so much more than what English is saying to us. I am my lover. I believe she's actually saying, I am we are.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

Like the ego, I mean. Well, he says that elsewhere. Yeah, it it it's it is bizarre because I don't even want to get into the weirdness of this because it's love poetry, right? And so if you're saying I am my lover, you just you just go into weird, like you just go into weird places. So uh it is it is it is absolutely bizarre that um anybody would be saying like these are obviously two different individuals, two distinct inv individuals. This is a love story. He believes, and he's the only one who believes it, that um that the bride or or the the woman in Song of Songs is saying, I am my lover. I am my lover. That's crazy, but that is he he says, I am him, meaning we this is this is the theme. He's been teaching this for a uh for decades, it seems like that we become Jesus, uh, that there's an end times people, not just we, it's like there's going to be a future generation of Christians, super Christians. It's the next thing on God's timetable. Actually, David, you had a really insightful comment you sent me about what Brian believes Jesus is in relation to the church.

SPEAKER_03 59:54

So, did you hear what he said about the Mount of Transfiguration? Okay, so hopefully this isn't too deep, but I think this is really important because I think you guys at Remnant do a great job talking about a lot of this kind of stuff. Biblical typology is really, really important because the whole point of the Colossians text that we read, where Brian says the body is, you know, Christ, you know, the body is now Christ himself. Uh, the whole point of typology is that everything in the scriptures is pointing to Christ. Brian extends the typology and says, everything, you know, Moses and Elijah, they were pointing to Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration, right? But then Christ was pointing to us. So the end of biblical typology is not Christ, it is us. Because the transfiguration itself wasn't the summit, it was a prophecy. A prophecy of what? A prophecy of us. And so, Miller, you said it absolutely correct. The it the end goal of everything in Brian Simmons' mind is that God glorifies us. Um, this we don't even have time to get into this. Watch our video uh for the wild saga of Brian's Aramaic translation in Luke 14, where he twists it from everyone praising Jesus and glorifying Jesus to Jesus offered everyone glory. That's literally what it says. It takes a text that is about the people glorifying Jesus, and he turns it into a scripture. Uh, well, it's not a scripture anymore, it's just Brian's own hallucinations. Turns it into Jesus glorifying the people. So this is a pattern. And so that's why I don't give a charitable reading when I see Colossians 2 say the body is now Christ. I think it's intentional. I think he knows exactly what he's doing. And the last point I'll make, and I'll kick it to you guys, is to reiterate what Miller said earlier. Do you notice what he said? I want to tell you something you've probably never heard before. And then elsewhere he says, um, you know, I get in trouble for saying this, but I think I can say it here. Well, if you believe in the same Orthodox doctrine of the coming of Christ, if you can say with Christians for the last 2,000 years that he will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end, if you can say with the rest of the church for the last 2,000 years that we look forward uh for the to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, then everybody's heard that before, Brian. But if you are teaching something heretical and novel, then yes, no one has ever heard it before. So by his own admission, he is not teaching the Orthodox doctrine of the second coming of Christ, even if he gives a tacit uh, you know, little morsel. And again, John Mark is totally correct. You guys have no idea how hard we had to work to find a reference. I had to find a podcast that had a transcript. I looked at all the videos, I couldn't find it. I had to find a podcast and I found it in the transcript. That's the only place that I've personally found it, other than the one video where he's already said the heresy for 20 minutes, and it kind of at the end says, Now, just so you know, I do also believe in you know a return of Christ or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

Michael, you've got a book held up that viewers can see.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:57

Oh, dude. Well, the typology thing really got me because uh when I said earlier, like this is a you gospel, this has nothing to do with Christ being the end all be all. It really is about you being preeminent, not about Christ being preeminent. And so the thing you mentioned about how the transfiguration was really just a foreshadowing and just a type of what's really culminating, which is the transfiguration of the church. Um that if if somebody just got a good little hermeneutic tool, that this would help you avoid so much of the craziness. This is GK Beale. It's called the Handbook on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament. Now, the reason I mentioned this is because a lot of people will say that you know Paul is you know reinterpreting the Old Testament or making it to mean something it doesn't mean, or that Jesus, when he says, You've heard it said, but I say to you, um, they'll they'll use that as a way to say Jesus is undermining the Old Testament. What I found incredible about this is he explains in particular how typology escalates um into uh it does culminate into something, but the end point is always Christ. And it does escalate into something, but it always escalates to the revealing of Christ. So is there going to be any kind of end-time revealing? Yeah, but it's Christ again, not us. So check out that book. It will help you. Like when you hear this kind of stuff, you'll immediately go, uh-oh, that's not okay. Um, it'll give you the tools to filter the kind of malarkey this guy is puking out right now. And I I don't know that better way to say it. It's it's that bad. So please go check out that. Uh, it'll help you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:34

Typology, that's all jokes, uh, by James Hamilton is a really, really good one. Uh uh understanding the Bible's promise-shaped patterns, it'll show you again, all these things point to Christ. I I can't get over, I know I mentioned it earlier when he said Jesus became a cloud. Um, the gospel writers go out of their way over and over to say that Jesus rose bodily, that Jesus is in the upper room with the disciples, they touch his hands, they put their hand in his side. When when John has his revelation of Christ and he sees him on the throne, he sees him as one who is slain as a lamb. Jesus is bodily in the heavens, making intercession for us as our high priest, able to sympathize with our weakness because he is still flesh. Jesus is embodied. This is the core of the gospel. Jesus doesn't become a spirit in the heavens, Jesus is not a, you know, a baby playing on a diaper floating around, he is not a ghost, uh, he's not a cloud, that is for darn sure. Jesus is one in the Father's essence, he has the same essence as the Father, and in regards to his humanity, is of the same essence as us. He he had a physical body and still does. Uh, and the reason we can have confidence in our resurrection and the idea that we will live in glorified bodies is because Jesus has rose from the dead and he is still embodied. You undermine that reality. The whole gospel message falls apart. If if he's just this kind of spiritual being floating around, he's not our intercessor who can sympathize with our weakness. He's not our high priest that is, in fact, human because that's what it requires to be a high priest. Um, we have no confidence in the resurrection if he's not physically risen. This idea of him becoming a cloud is again, somebody's gonna say, like, oh, that was just a flip away statement. He was being careless. You just can't be careless when you're talking about like those sorts of things. Like it you've got to be precise in your language.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:32

Yeah, and not only that, let me just throw one more thing in and then John Mark, I can kick it to you. But um, I'm gonna quote Brian Simmons here, okay? The direct quote Christ is no longer a person, he is now a body, a corporate expression. Um that is as heretical as you could possibly make a statement about Christ. The entire theological history of the church is centered around, of course, of orthodox Christian theology, is centered around establishing the fact that Christ is a person, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three persons, three hoopostases, right? And Brian in one fit of madness, you know, and again, he's hopefully people see again. We we really try our best. We may fail sometimes, we're human beings. We really try our best to not be the people that take one clip from 30 years ago that's kind of out of context, edit it in a certain way, make it say something. We're like seven clips in, and it hasn't gotten any better, it's only gotten worse. Now we have him saying Christ is no longer a person, he is now a body, a corporate expression. Whether Brian intends it or not, you know what that is? That's just Richard Rohr. That's just Christ consciousness. That's all it is. Christ is now a corporate expression, he is not the personal embodied, right? If if as you said, uh Josh, if Christ is no longer a person, then he no longer has natures. Like only a person can have natures. He's just this um I don't know the right word, like uh esoteric mist that floats in the midst of a cloud causes them to glow. Exactly, he's a cloud.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:18

That is that it is upsetting.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:23

It is possible that you know Brian would be listening to this and saying, Hey man, I believe all of those orthodox things that you guys just affirmed. I would I would say if you do, then your teaching is uh pointless. It's absolutely useless. In fact, it's worse than useless, it's misleading and deceptive. Um but if you don't believe uh uh all of these all uh you know orthodox things that we just affirmed, then this is heretical. It's either totally useless, uh deceptive and misleading, or it's heretical. And I don't see another option. And so there's this is really this is where it comes down to. Like um the reason that we're doing what we're doing, really, you know, guys, we're we're taking a page out of remnant's book. Um here. Uh, you guys have been doing this way longer than us. Um calling balls and strikes in the charismatic movement. It's just there's way more bad than I ever thought that there was. And I think some of it I told myself, I used to tell myself uh narratives that made it so just it just wasn't as bad, right? Um, it was it was how would you do that here in the past?

SPEAKER_09 1:09:46

How would you explain away what you just heard him say? Like when he made a makes a statement like um the transfiguration, or just you know, he is or she is him, like she is Christ. Uh how would you explain that away? Like, oh, he's being hyperbolic. Like what what would you say?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

I probably here's here's what here's what I probably would have said is like he's too he's going out a a little bit over his skis. That's not what he means. Really, he's just talking about union with Christ. Like, you know, Peter says that we become partakers of the divine nature, and you know, that's that's true. Like we we are united with Christ, we are part of his body, and those are all true things that every Orthodox Christian affirms. But he's just being a little bit hyperbolic, and uh that's what I would have told myself before. I don't think that excuse washes.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:42

No, it doesn't wash, and let me just I'm sorry. This is friends who are watching this video, this is a man who says that he has the qualifications to translate the Bible. If you are routinely going out over your skis, right? This is what happened with Todd White and uh many people. You guys obviously have shared your journey about this when it came to, oh, you know, he's just messing up the deity of Christ and he just doesn't quite know, then stop teaching. Put the mic down and definitely don't act like you can take the God-breathed words of the triune God that were given as men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God, that you can take those words and translate them so that they are still the authoritative, infallible word of God to God's people, and yet you don't even know the basics of literal, like how to not be a heretic. You don't know how to not say heretical things, put the computer down, put the pen down, put whatever down, definitely put the mic down and just be a Christian.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:50

Well, well, here I'll push back on that and say maybe, maybe he does know. Maybe this isn't an ignorance thing. I think in Todd's case, it was an ignorance thing. But if I look to Brian, Brian knows. I can't say this in most places, and Brian knows that this is gonna be weird to many of your ears. I think Brian actually knows he is flirting with a line that is very close to heresy, and and that's why um, you know, in his talk, he's like, Oh, you know, uh, the second coming is the church, you know, parisia, and everybody take a bathroom break. And then someone comes up to him and talks to him from the floor, and I think they're like, please make sure you say that like you believe in a bodily resurrection. And then he comes back from the break and goes, Well, now I've been falsely accused before, and and I do believe in the physical resurrection, however, let me focus.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

He started like starting to sound like Colonel Sanders in my impression. I apologize. Yes, I apologize. I realize you're laughing at us a good voice of my music, and I'm like, Oh, I'm not the right voice. I apologize.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:50

I'm not trying, I'm not trying to scoff, I was just trying to do an impression. Uh okay, listen. I'm I'm having too much fun, I shouldn't be. This is serious. Um, I think he probably knows, and that that probably makes it a little bit more sinister uh that when you've been warned about stuff, when you're like, hey, this sounds dangerous, and you don't uh you don't pull back, you double down, and you keep pushing this kind of novel stuff because novelty excites the listener. Um I I just think that's dangerous. Um so I would also uh have people who are at this point in the video going, Man, uh you should really take him for his word. You should really believe Brian when he says he believes in the body of the resurrection of Jesus, you should believe him. I'm gonna point you back to the video that John Mark and David Fish did on the Prashton translation, where it will be documented over and over and over and over again that he lied. So you you could say in one breath, oh, but we should take him at his word. It's like this is a guy who lied about his qualifications. He's a guy who lied about translating the Aramaic, he he's lied about you know the supremacy of this thing, and an angel coming to him, oh no, actually it was Jesus, the story changed. He's lied over and over and over again. He is stolen. So I go, look, this is not the character of a person I think you should try to um glean from. Um I would say this is a classic thornbush situation, and you should not attempt to glean figs from it. Um okay, guys. Uh I those are all my thoughts. Any any any closing thoughts from from you, gentlemen? Or is this a good place to wrap?

SPEAKER_09 1:14:26

Time to go get some chow.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:28

Yes, sir. Uh John Mark, anything? I would I would say this, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:32

Um man, we gotta pray for the for the charismatic movement, and we I think we need to take these things seriously. It's not enough to just expose. Um, we have to reckon with why we were so um why we were so apt to believe some of these things. Um, this came about because Bill Johnson endorsed it, and suddenly sales for the Passion Translation just went through the roof. Um Bill Johnson said it's the best thing that's happened to Bible translation in my lifetime. He says there's hardly a day that goes by where I don't read the Passion Translation. Uh he he says he he really loves the footnotes. Um this this came about because of of Bethel's influence within the charismatic movement. I think that that needs to be examined. Um that we held this this movement, these these figures, Bill Johnson and others, in such such high regard that we just sort of believed everything that they said, and it seems like they have promoted over and over and over again frauds, liars, and wolves.

unknown 1:15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:46

Um why is that? Why have we been so gullible? Why have we why have we just accepted these things? Why haven't we been critical? Why have we just ignored Steven Kozar, who had been, you know, who saw this uh a mile away and we we ridiculed him as having you know a religious spirit? You know, why have we been so impervious to truth? I think that there's there's gotta be real soul searching that happens. We can't just say, oh, the passion translation is bad. Okay, you know, I won't read it anymore. We need to, we need to ask ourselves why, why have we accepted this?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:26

Yeah. Last thing I'll say fair critique. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, Miller. I was just the last thing I was gonna say is I I just was my mind was just drawn to uh 2 Timothy 3 3 7, you know, always learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. In other words, always taking in what's new, always taking in the and and I think that describes in a lot of ways uh where especially kind of the hyper-charismatic movement has gone. And the passion, quote unquote, translation is part of that. There is a kind of hunger that is demonic, and that hunger is a hunger for more than what God has given us, uh, or a hunger for something different than what God has given us. And that is what the passion uh quote unquote translation is. It is um the red dye 40, it's the the chemical processed whatever that we actually reject the true word of God that nourishes our soul because we want something more, and I just think that's exactly what uh what Brian's playing into. And yes, um, every single person who has bought the Passion Translation, um, I do not believe they have the level of complicity, of course, that Brian has as the one who deceptively produced it. However, when Brian says a heresy on stage and you heard a couple videos back, do you remember the person that loudly goes, Hallelujah? That's what Miller read. We'll gather for ourselves teachers who tell us what we want to hear. And the charismatic body of Christ at large, who has participated in Brian's charade, including Bethel, including lots of other places. Uh, we got to look a little bit deeper than just this one guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:08

That's good. Guys, thank you so much for tuning in to this episode. Uh, David, uh, John, Mark, thank you both for doing all the research for this. Uh, want to give a shout-out to Mike Winger, one of those videos uh he put together for us. Uh so thankful for that as well. Uh, I like that we're able to work together and help the body of Christ. Man, steer clear. We we've got um a lot of room for growth, but I'm actually really excited to see continuationist sounding the alarm on these sorts of things. So it's not just the heretic hunters and the angry cessationists behind closed doors. It's actually uh the the whole uh of the charismatic movement. When you think of uh Blaze and you think of uh at Wake Up and Win, Minor Prophets, us here at Remnant Radio, Mike Winger, at least on paper, uh, where I know everyone's still wrestling out how all this stuff fleshes out, but continuationist. Uh, we believe that God is still doing these things. These aren't a bunch of uh angry people who are trying to push out propaganda to win the movement. They're insiders trying to save the movement from themselves. So, guys, thank you so much for tuning into the program. Make sure to subscribe, like the video, share it around to all of your favorite uh passion readers. Guys, thank you so much, and we'll see you next time.